The Dirty Water Clubs PJ Interview July 2009
By: Steve Rose
Apparently the media is currently over saturated with prose about closure of London venues and the like. The Hammersmith Palais, Astoria, The End, The Metro Club and Cafe de Paris amongst others have all given up the ghost, and will never see another band on their front of house. With the cultural and financial recession having further effect on the already long suffering, and convoluted music industry, it appears people are staying in more and venues are struggling to pay their bills.
The resignation of Dirty Water Club, the demise of the only decent British music magazine, Plan B (and my personal favourite American magazine, Skyscraper), and the death of pop legend Michel Jackson have brought more impending doom to the already cursed 'music industry'. However voluminous the jaundiced reporting about London's less than opulent nightlife, or however big the pit of despair is that the prehistoric music industry is residing in, is irrelevant. This is not about that, it is about the end of an era for the punk-rock'n'roll inspired garage scene, built around the Dirty Water Club for the last thirteen years.
Inaugurated in March 1997 by the partnership of sixties garage rock aficionados PJ and The Professor, with an intangible set of standards and regulations, concerning music directly or indirectly influenced by The Sonics, The Monks, Velvet Underground and of course The Strandells. Since its apprehensive genesis (taking over from a chap named Slim at The Boston in North London) the 'night' has been graced by the only UK appearance by the allegorical amplified banjo led rock band 'The Monks, an early appearance by platinum selling indie heroes The White Stripes, which saw the club receive an unprecedented amount of 'cool points', and a residency by the prolific musical genius Billy Childish to name but a few.
With the retirement of PJ and The Professor, the catalysts of the garage rock mecca, they leave a world where the garage revival is the new grunge. With Black Lips, King Khan and Jay Reatard whipping crowds into frenzies both in America, and on our own shores, psyche and garage club nights are popping up all over the capital, and the genre itself has become something that even The Guardian' believes to be news worthy.
We caught up with record and bicycle connoisseur PJ, to talk about the past, present and future of the Dirty Water Club and Dirty Water Records.
Rockfeedback: How did you and the professor meet?
PJ: "The Professor was already the resident sound engineer, who installed the PA and turntables, etc, at The Boston. So we became partners out of necessity in a way. He did already have some experience of putting on gigs, as he’d done the Zombie Club in at the White Horse in Hampstead some years earlier. And I’d seen him around already, doing the sound at various clubs like The Frat Shack and The Purple Turtle club nights amongst others. The Dirty Water Club wasn’t actually started by neither myself nor by the Professor though, I have to point out. It was this chap known as Slim. He’d done nights at the Dublin Castle in the very early 1990s, before moving to the St John’s Tavern on Junction Road, putting on gigs four or five nights a week – all sorts of stuff, but with regular garage and punk nights, including a Billy Childish residency.
The back room of the St John’s Tavern was a mad place, stuffed animal heads on the walls, a big wagon wheel, and a stage that wouldn’t have looked too out of place in a wild west saloon – so Slim christened it “The Wild Western Room”, naturally.
When Slim moved his gigs to The Boston he came up with the name “Dirty Water” and recruited me as the regular DJ and flyer designer. But a few months later Slim quit the gig promoting lark, for personal reasons, and me and the Professor decided to “carry on with the six weeks’ worth he’s got booked up and see how it goes”. I wouldn’t have believed it if someone told me I’d be still doing it more than 12 years later…"
Rockfeedback: It seems like these days, everyone starts nights and tries to release something, as if to tick a box. That’s not what Dirty Water Club was about. What made you start a night and a record label?
PJ: "At that time, late 1996 or early 1997, there wasn’t a lot going on that interested me. The Frat Shack (the best club night ever!) was once a month or so, if that. There were occasionally bands I liked at places like the Dublin Castle or the Hope & Anchor. But, back then, I’d be lucky if I saw a band I liked more than a couple of times a month – nothing like nowadays when there’s usually a band I like five or six times a week somewhere in north, east or central London. (I don’t often venture out west or south of the river, I’m afraid.) So, I figured… If I want to see bands I like I’d better do it myself. I don’t think anyone’s got a right to complain if they aren’t willing to get off their arse and give it a go.
The record label started because friends in bands wanted to put out a record and we figured that having the Dirty Water name on the label would help them to get noticed more than if they just did it themselves, as the club had been going for a while by then and had got a bit well known. After doing a couple of releases by myself a friend who was a regular at the Dirty Water gigs suggested ideas for more releases and before long it seemed a good idea for him to be on board, working with me on the label. Now there are three of us running Dirty Water Records – one British (me), one American (Boston Paul), one Spanish (Diego) – all bringing different types of skills to the label, hopefully complementing one another. Or at least that’s the plan!"
Rockfeedback: Thirteen years ago there couldn't have been that many similar things going on...how did you know what to do?
PJ: "Basically… I didn’t know what to do. I kind of made things up as I went along. It’s not such a difficult thing, putting on gigs. I had a list of bands and their phone numbers from Slim. And I had friends in bands. So I just phoned them, faxed the details to Time Out etc. I did the DJing, we got a friend to do the door, Professor looked after the sound desk and equipment. We had a website up and running before most people had internet access thanks to a Dutch garage fan who wanted to help out (cheers, Sander!). If you’re in your teens or twenties you probably don’t remember what it was like before The Internet! But, anyway, once more and more people started to have email, booking bands and promoting the gigs got a lot easier. The internet didn’t mean less work - it gave me more things to do if anything - but it became easier to find bands, to contact them and to tell people what was going on. And, of course, it made it easier for bands to hear about us and to get in touch with us."
Rockfeedback: Can you recall any particular event or memory of how you got into garage rock?
PJ: "I remember, as a very little kid, probably five- or six-years-old, digging out my parents’ old records and their ancient Dansette record player – they had stuff like Johnny Kidd & the Pirates, Little Richard, Larry Williams, Elvis Presley, Buddy Holly, The Rolling Stones, etc. I think my parents totally stopped buying records when my older sister was born in late-1966. Not a bad time to stop buying records actually… The release of Sgt Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band would’ve made me give up on music!
So going into my teens I was already crazy for old rock’n’roll from the ’50s and ’60s, spending my pocket money at the local record fair on Sun Records LPs, vintage rhythm’n’blues and the like.
There were older guys down my street who were totally into the rockabilly scene, which was pretty big at the time. And once I was old enough I tagged along with them to see The Milkshakes – Billy Childish’s mid-1980s group – at the Medway Indian Club. They were playing early- to mid-1960s type beat music, and like a lot of British groups back in the original beat boom the music was somewhat based on ’50s rock’n’roll and r&b but beefed up with a distinctly 1960s vibe along with a punk rock ethic.
I remember coming home from school to watch The Milkshakes, The Prisoners, The Sting Rays and The Tall Boys on Channel Four’s weekly music show, The Tube... Growing up in the Medway Towns (in north Kent) at that time, the garage, mod and rockabilly scenes were huge. Walk down the High Street on a Saturday afternoon and probably a third of teenagers were sporting quiffed hair-dos or shaggy bowl cuts. There were gigs and parties going on all the time. The local indie record store had loads of the Pebbles LPs as well as all sorts of great rock’n’roll. And they still had the old listening booths so you could stroll in on a Saturday afternoon and go through the racks hearing stuff and learning what’s what.
When I moved to London as a 17-year-old there were rockabilly DJs playing stuff like the Sonics in amongst the ’50s rock’n’roll, especially Mouse on his Saturday afternoons at Dingwalls in Camden Town (when it was still a dirty, sleazy dive). Plus I was reading Kicks magazine – a fanzine out of New York put out by Billy & Miriam of Norton Records – which I’d spotted in the racks at the old Tower Records on Piccadilly Circus. Kicks didn’t differentiate between genres too much, it was all rock’n’roll, to them basically - so I was reading about rockabilly and garage, surf and rhythm’n’blues, and all points in between - and their write-ups of the records and bands made want to get hold of the records they talked about. My Canadian buddy Sean (now back in Vancouver) made me a cassette tape of garage stuff and it then became my task to track down all those records on vinyl. And it all kind of went on from there…
So I was going to a lot of rockabilly clubs back then but I guess what really got me more heavily into the garage sounds and involved in the gigs and bands was the fact that so many of the rockabilly guys were such morons. There are exceptions, of course. But so many of them were closer to apes than humans. You couldn’t hold an intelligent conversation with them. Too many of them were bigoted and narrow minded. How can someone hate black people and be listening to Chuck Berry at the same time? Not to mention Little Richard! You hate both blacks and “queers” but you love Little Richard? What an idiot! On the garage scene people were so much more laid back and not anywhere near as dumb. I felt a lot more at home.
You still see mods and rockabillys and all that, but these days there isn’t anywhere near so much of that tribalism. Kids can dig the garage sounds, and more mainstream indie, some fifties stuff and new wave, and a bit of funk or even hip hop, all at the same time. Young people these days don’t seem to have such a need to pigeonhole themselves. And I rather prefer it like that, to be honest.
Rockfeedback: Thirteen years is a monumentally long time to run a club night - what would you say were your top three shows or memories?
PJ: "Having a band like The Monks in London was an undoubted highlight. It’s probably hard to believe for many younger people, who have bought the CD in HMV or where ever, but there was a time when they were more of a myth than a real band. When there was no Myspace, when few bands had websites, the Monks album hadn’t been reissued… a German friend told me about them, described them to me. It sounded unbelievable. Eventually, one of their tracks turned up on a bootleg compilation of obscure European beat groups. Then the Monks album was bootlegged. And the reality of what the Monks sounded like (and looked like) was better than I’d imaged even. And to have those guys play… I could’ve stopped doing gigs right there and then, having put on what I thought was the best gig ever. And, yes, live they were as good as one could have hoped.
Ask most people about Dirty Water and they’ll mention the White Stripes playing for us back in the summer of ’01. That was reviewed in practically every newspaper in the country and was listed in Mojo and Kerrang as one of the world’s best ever in the history of live gigs. It was good. It probably was a world-changing event in music (as Mojo put it). But there are tons of gigs that were better for me – because the audience were more up for fun, for having a good time, not posing, not there because the band was “the next big thing”, but because there was a good rock’n’roll band and it was sure to be a good party. Bands like The Woggles, Los Chicos, The Hollywood Sinners, The Cynics, Teddy Boys from the Crypt, the Phantom Keys – they can be relied on to make the party happen. And though it was great having The White Stripes there – the club was more or less packed out for the next six months just because of them – sometimes the bands you’ve never heard of were tons more fun.
Having Billy Childish play once a month or so for all these years has also been a privilege. I’ve probably seen him perform more than anyone – hundreds of times. And I am still not bored with seeing him on stage. What else can I say? If you’ve never seen Billy Childish playing rock and roll on stage in a pub back room then you really ought to. And the sooner the better. But more than any of the bands, it was the people who came to the club who really made it what it was. Loads of fantastic people who’ve become great friends.
Rockfeedback: Do you have any funny stories from The Dirty Water Club that you feel should see the light of internet publishing?
PJ: "There are plenty of funny stories. None of which can be mentioned here. For legal reasons!
Rockfeedback: How did you come to get the legendary Billy Childish to have a monthly residency, and how did he become associated with the night?
PJ: "Billy had been doing a residency at the Wild Western Room at the old St John’s Tavern for Slim. The pub had even put a Headcoats CD on their jukebox! In August 1996, when the landlord of the St John’s held a wake for his brother, a Headcoats gig was hurriedly moved down the road to the Boston. And that was basically the birth of the Dirty Water Club in a way. Billy knows us, we know him. A Dirty Water gig for Billy is hassle-free. We have the vintage PA columns he likes, we have a nice old Premier drum kit, we have amps that suits his sound. He can just turn up, plug in and go! No problems, no surprises, with people he can trust. He does play other places in London from time to time, but rarely more than once. Which I think says it all.
Rockfeedback: How was the Gonn show? Was it a good turn out? Did it feel like the end of an era for you? Did they play under a swastika again?
PJ: "I think they are old enough to know better than to hang a swastika on the wall behind them now! When they did that they were dumb teenagers who just thought it’d be cool to have it there – they associated it with the Iron Cross that the bikers all wore. But they were given a lesson about what fascism is all about very soon after that episode.
On the night the band was even better than I could have hoped for. Not just good “for a bunch of old guys” but good full stop. Actually, to say they were “good” is an understatement. I remember a week earlier getting the test pressing of the ‘Don’t Need Your Loving’ single which we were putting out on Dirty Water Records. It was loud, fuzzy, nasty – just the way I like it! And on stage those old guys sounded so much like that 1966 recording, it was amazing. The gig was sold out on the night and a bunch of us carried on partying from that Friday night until some time on Sunday. (There are some stories about that weekend but nothing I’m prepared to say in print!)
In a way it felt like the end of an era, yes. But at the same time I was looking forward to having more time for myself. As well as spending more time on the record label. Plus, I was planning on doing occasional gigs under the record label banner so the spirit of the Dirty Water Club would continue at least for the foreseeable future, just in a different guise.
Rockfeedback: Dirty Water Records itself is still going ahead, right? And shows already booked will be honoured along with a few one-offs which will take place under the moniker of Dirty Water Records?
PJ: "Dirty Water Records had been taking up more and more of my time during the past six months to a year. The last five albums all sold out pretty quick and had to be re-pressed. A number of singles have been re-pressed as well. The vinyl versions of albums are outselling the CDs, which has surprised me, and the download side of things is going really well now too.
We’ve plenty of releases lined up, including stuff from Magic Christian (featuring Clem Burke from Blondie and Cyril Jordan from the Flaming Groovies!), a new album by Thee Vicars, another album by The Branded, new recordings from The Wildebeests, a Detroit band that Jack White used to be in called The Hentchmen, and more…
And we will put on gigs occasionally, yes. Most of them will be bigger name bands as a way of giving our label’s bands a support slot in front of a good sized audience, or friends’ bands. And Billy Childish wants to carry on playing monthly too – and as we’re releasing a singles package to commemorate his fiftieth birthday later this year it seems appropriate for us to continue doing his gigs.
Rockfeedback: Ironically since its dissolution you have been in The Guardian, been booked to DJ internationally and received some incredible offers of bands to play, right? Can you tell me about these offers and who we might expect to see gracing your stage in the not too distant future?
PJ: "The piece in The Guardian was actually about a month or six weeks before the gig with Gonn – it mentioned them as well as talking about the Monks. Good publicity for our last ever Dirty Water Club night! There have been a few good bands offered since I announced we were closing the club. And, as I said before, we might as well do them as it gives us the chance to put our label’s bands in front of a guaranteed good crowd. Coming up in August is a Black Lips gig (although they have played for us several times before – the first time being back in ’04 on a double bill with King Khan & the Shrines). That is supposed to be a secret gig – meaning not advertised – so if you’re on the Dirty Water mailing list (join up at http://www.myspace.com/dirtywaterclub) to get the details when the time comes. I am looking forward to Kid Congo Powers & the Pink Monkey Birds too (he was previously in The Bad Seeds, The Cramps and the Gun Club) which will be at The 100 Club rather than The Boston.
I’ve often been abroad a number of times to DJ at garage-rock festivals over the years, including Stockholm, Valencia, Rotterdam, New York and Las Vegas to name a few, but recently I went to DJ in Paris, and there’s a trip to Atlanta later in the year. And I’m now going to DJ at a lot of little club nights and gigs around London (but only if they’re within two or three miles of my house!).
Rockfeedback: I see that you have upcoming releases from Thee Vicars, The Branded, Billy Childish and Gonn amongst others. How is the record label side of Dirty Water doing, in this time of economic and music industry crisis?
PJ: "It’s a great surprise, though a pleasant one of course, at how well the label is going. As I mentioned, a number of recent releases have sold out and been re-pressed (in some cases several times over). The download sales are on a steep upwards trend. We seem to have found a niche that suits us. Whilst the mainstream of the music industry is in crisis real music fans know where to go to get real rock’n’roll.
Rockfeedback: With the current popularity of The Black Lips, King Khan, The Strange Boys, etc, and the other London rock'n'roll/psych/punk nights that have come up from nowhere, demonstrating the level of recognition which garage has achieved...why is it now that you have decided to call it a day?
PJ: "When we started doing Dirty Water there were so few places where you could see garage/psych/punk bands. It was really hard for those sort of bands to get gigs back in the mid- to late-1990s.
A bunch of bands got popular around 2001-02 and most of them (eg. The Libertines, the Strokes) weren’t really garage-rock at all actually, just slightly more punky indie rock bands. But because the press gave them that tag, a lot of real garage-punk bands got a chance to be seen and real garage-rock became more well-known and more acceptable. And a lot of indie kids got the idea to check out the real garage sounds, including the original sixties garage bands. Which was all good in the long run, of course.
If I’d quit doing the Dirty Water Club a lot earlier than this there would have been a void, there would have been almost nothing of this type going on, at least for a while anyway. There are lots of club nights and gigs going on now so
it actually felt like the right time to quit. There’s plenty of other stuff going on, after all. There are lots of kids out there doing a great job. And good luck to them. I’m very thankful that they’re doing what they do and I hope they all continue to do it for as long as I did. I like being able to go out and hear good music!
The Professor was the one that really wanted to quit, to be honest. He wanted to spend more time on his business – of renting out and installing sound equipment. He’s also talked about starting a new band but I don’t know if that’s progressed at all yet. His departure got me thinking about it, and I then got to thinking that doing so many gigs was taking up way too much of my time, particularly as the record label needs my time as well. I felt like it was time for a change…
Rockfeedback: You have a label and club night named after The Standells’ summer smash “Dirty Water”, and you put out a slew of vinyl artifacts, so I know that you are a record collector. What are your most prized pieces of wax?
PJ: "To me, collectors are people who buy stuff (often for stupid prices) and then keep their prized collection safe and sound, locked up in cases, or up on shelves on display. My records, even the ones which are notionally worth a lot of money go out with me to be played for people to dance to. On the way to Rotterdam last summer, to DJ at the Primitive Festival, the lock on my case broke and some rare, hard-to-get 45s ended up in front of a Piccadilly Line train! Fortunately, they remained intact and unscratched, being in plastic sleeves (they didn’t actually get run over by the train!). If they had been broken I would have disappointed, annoyed, but not crazily upset. Shit happens. And those records were made to be played. Not to be stored away in a “collection”. Everything that happens to them is a part of their life.
If you ask a mother which of her children she loves the most she’ll say she loves them all equally. I kind of feel the same way about my records. Okay, some I like more than others, for sure. But I love, for example, an easy-to-get item like ‘Nobody But Me’ by The Human Beinz just as much as I love my copy of ‘Love’s The Thing’ by The Romancers or ‘Hipsville 29 B.C.’ by The Sparkles or whatever harder to get record I could mention.
Of course, as a 15-year-old with a compilation album that had ‘Psycho’ by The Sonics on it, I never thought I would eventually own a load of original Sonics’ 45s (let alone work with the band at gigs in Spain!) but the record I’m usually most excited about is the one I got most recently – which at this time is an original UK pressing of ‘13 Women’ by The Renegades (on the President label).
However, you really can’t get me to choose a few out of the thousands as my “most prized”. It’s absolutely impossible to make such choices…
Wowee Zowee, you heard it here first! For more information on Dirty Water Club or Records head to www.dirtywaterclub.com or www.myspace.com/dirtywaterrecordscouk