Graham Coxon & Dinosaur Jr - In Conversation @ SXSW - Spring ‘09
By: Chris Pearson
Rockfeedback's sister label Transgressive recently added a childhood hero of ours to its roster, in the shape of Blur guitarist Graham Coxon. Due to our close ties we were privileged to hang around with Graham whilst out in Texas, filming the SXSW music conference (footage of which will surface on a mammoth redesign of Rockfeedback.com in the coming months), shooting his shows, exclusive acoustic sessions, and generally just getting to know the guy a bit better. Another of the bands we were due to shoot were the equally legendary Dinosaur Jr. - a favourite of not only Rockfeedback's, but Graham Coxon's also. It was posited that we take Graham along with us to the interview, as he'd not caught up with the Dinos since the infamous Rollercoaster tour in 1992, when Blur and DJ played alongside My Bloody Valentine and the Jesus And Mary Chain for what was probably the greatest set of shows that ever took place, if you ask me. He wanted to talk to J Mascis about "the perfect guitar solo". Sadly, J wasn't available for the interview, but having to make do with drummer Murph and Lou Barlow (also of Sebadoh) was hardly a disappointment. Rockfeedback's own Toby L lead proceedings for the initial part of the discussion, up until the moment where the penny drops, and Lou and Murph realise who the British guy in the thick rimmed glasses actually is... [Tom Hannan]
[Lou Barlow (LB), Murph (M) of Dinosaur Jr, Graham Coxon (GC) of Blur and Rockfeedback's Toby L (TL)]
Toby L: "The smaller, late night context of this show... does it affect the atmosphere, from your perspective at all?"
Murph: "Well for me it definitely makes it a little more wild, 'cos I don't... I'm a kinda early night person, so it's kinda nice. It'll add some energy , some excitement; having it this late, having it here, in this environment."
TL: "Playing a small packed club, or playing outdoors - does it affect things?"
Lou Barlow: "This is kinda like both of those together - packed, and outdoors!"
TL: "It seems like the perfect hybrid in that sense.."
LB: "Who knows? I don't know yet... I'm sure it'll be fine."
TL: "Is there still a sense of trepidation prior to show time? Or is it something that...?" (Trails off) "What?" (To Graham Coxon) "Why are you giggling?" (Laughs)
GC: (Laughing) "I'm sorry, I'm giggling - I don't know what I'm doing..."
TL: (To M and LB) "Just so you know, Graham's going to chip in occasionally with questions as well, and we're just going to freestyle..."
M: "I still get nervous occasionally, but more like festivals and big shows; shows like this are actually more fun. When there's more mayhem and, like, when there's more possibility of something going wrong, I actually like that - that actually is, like, more fun for me."
TL: "There's something cool about having limitations, isn't there really? Like, your performance - if you've got everything in a comfort zone, it almost feels like you could be quite - I don't know, it's a bit cake-like. It's nice to know that things could break at any point. It's that sense of tension..."
LB: "I like comfort, as well! (Laughs) Comfort is good and so is chaos. There's a balance to it."
GC: "I like making my own comfort. You have to tell yourself that, you know; it's all pretty loose really, we're all human beings and it's a pretty surreal situation, with the jet lag and (turning to LB) you've probably had drugs, so..." (LB laughs)
M: "Coming from Massachusetts and L.A. I don't think we have a lot of jet lag, but..."
GC: "That's what I had to try to get to, the feeling of it's ok to see what happens..."
TL: "What would be the perfect context to see Dinosaur Jr. in for the first time? Is this a good one? The perfect context to see the band for the first time in..?"
M: "Yeah, I think this is probably going to be a good context. I think smaller for any band, I would rather see them in a smaller room. So, anything smaller for any band I think is always a better context for me."
TL: "And also, in terms of volume as well, like, being that close to people..."
M: "Well they can soak it in more, like a sponge."
LB: "When you have those bodies close to the edge..."
M: "You get the sponge thing".
GC: "When I first saw you in Maxwell's in New Jersey, and that was a long time ago.. '91? '92.. Yeah, and that was small.."
LB: "You saw us at Maxwell's? "
GC: "Yeah.."
LB: "Really..??"
GC: "Yeah, Maxwells.."
LB: (Surprised) "That was a long time ago.."
GC: "It was a long time ago.."
M: "Wait, you said '91?"
GC: "That was Blur's first tour of the 'States.."
LB: "Wait a minute, you're in Blur??"
M: "Yeah, I thought you looked familiar! We hung out at the Rollercoaster tour!"
GC: "Yeah, yeah!"
M: "We went crazy on that tour!"
(All descend into laughter)
LB: "Wait a minute, I was like, putting it together, and I was figuring out what you were saying...!"
M: "I didn't want to say anything because I thought, wait a minute, if he isn't in Blur I'm gonna offend him!"
LB: "Now I get it..!"
GC: "We all need to have glasses but he (referring to TL) doesn't need to have glasses.. That's what it's about..."
M: "I just remember you guys got that Nissan commercial, it was really big here in the 'States and I thought that was really cool - Blur on a Nissan car commercial. I thought "Wow, they've really made it man!!" 'Cos you see the car racing through the desert, and you hear "DU-DU-DU-DU-DU-DU-DU-DU" and I was like "YEAH!!!" I was like, into it - it was great."
TL: "Sorry, I'm just laughing at Lou's acknowledgement at the situation there!"
LB: (laughing) "Yeah, I was trying to put this together, like; why, wouldn't we know each other..? Wait, oh... I'm proud of not putting it together.."
M: "Wait, were you the guy who.. one of you.. remember you had the video on the Rollercoaster tour where... someone was shitting on the street, remember..?"
GC: "Yeah, but it was reverse -so it went up." (Does hand movement)
M: "Yeah, yeah, yeah! That was great."
GC : "It was a bit scary.."
BL: "It was good, we need more of that.."
GC: "That was the most messy tour -ever.. I think I thought it was going to be the most calm tour ever, and it was actually the most insane tour."
M: "Yeah.."
TL: "What memories do you guys have.. that was an amazing bill if I remember.. . My Bloody Valentine on the bill as well, and the Jesus and Mary Chain, that was quite a special time.."
LB: "I didn't see the show so.. I don't know much about it!"
(All laugh)
LB: "I was like, "fuck you!!"" (Puts both middle fingers in the air)
(All laugh)
M: "Ok, let's move on to something else..." (Laughs)
TL: "I feel like this has entered the realms of U.S. talk show!"
(All laugh)
TL: "When you think about where Dinosaur Jr. is now, at this stage; you've got a new record coming up - making that evolution over time, when you think of the band's history, getting to where you are now, what kind of place d'you think you're in?"
M: "I think we're just tighter. Live, I feel like it's better. I have a lot more fun. I feel like we have a better command over everything. It's generally better."
TL: D'you feel like when you're a younger band you're reacting against that slightly? You're kind of wanting to go with the weight of the flow; not necessarily knowing what's going to happen? As you get older, it's finesse."
M: "Well, definitely in the early days we did a lot more, like, experimental jams during the set. We would go out and frequently do, like, crazy noise jams."
LB: "No, we did that for, like, one tour and J [Mascis, lead guitar and vocals] told us to stop.." (Laughter) "We had this climactic.. we did, like 'Cortez the Killer' and we were listening to a cassette afterwards and J said "Let's never do that again." And we never did! We never did the crazy jams anymore."
M: "Well I liked it anyway!"
LB: "The only time we would ever do it was when you and I (to M) would play, and then we would get our friends to play guitar while we jammed and did crazy, like marijuana jams.."
TL: "That sounds like an album.."
LB: "That sounds like a terrible album!"
M: "Anyways, you really should be interviewing him (referring to CG) more, 'cause these guys made so much more money than we ever made.."
TL: "Is that how interviews should be done? Sort of on commercial value?"
M: "That's what it's about!" (Laughs)
TL: "Actually, good point. So Graham, you know, like, how have you found this commercial ad thing for you?"
GC: "I can't remember, I think it was the American Air force.." (To M/LB) - "But, your music makes peoples' brains go crazy; ours doesn't do that.."
TL: "Sorry to put you embarrassingly on the spot there. Would you say that... how much of an influence d'you think these guys have been?"
GC: "Personally, pretty huge actually. On people liked My Bloody Valentine definitely. Yeah, yeah for me definitely - there's this weird approach, a very un-English approach to solos, and rhythm and using guitars and drums and things in an expressive way; drive in the middle of your face, rather than just y'know, the mid-90's English thing of strumming a guitar. The guitar's going "Please! Do something interesting! Oh, I'm f*cking off to America." Jump into one of their vans. Y'know, so that's where the good stuff is happening, in America."
TL: "When you hear things like that, and see countless times over in text and stuff - the influence that you guys have had on the music scene in the last couple of decades. How does that make you feel from your perspective, or do you just trundle along in the darkness?"
LB: "We're just handing our influences onto others; we're just a jumble of influences ourselves, so you're just handing it on. It's nothing you can really take into significance; you can never take it personal. We can't really be like "yeah!""
M: "Yeah, we're not aware.."
LB: "You're just another kid, listening to music.."
TL: "Passing the baton on.."
LB: "..making it all, you're just consuming it, spitting it out."
M: "I mean, I'm more aware of, y'know, influences on me and the band rather than the other way around. I would much more think about that then think about who I'm influencing; that would be far too conceited..!"
TL: "One thing that I was asked to ask was actually when did you realise that loud was too loud at any point; have you ever bridged that point?"
LB: "When it's way too loud, it's too loud. Like, we experience it on a physical level. It's all just about the..."
M: "We have to feel the air."
LB: "It's the air."
M: "..we have to move the air.."
LB: "I think just even hitting a drum set is enough, just acoustically by itself is too loud."
M: "Yeah, the cymbals, the snare blow your ears, you have to wear ear muffs."
LB: "A cymbal, like this close to your ear; it's all destruction. So we've been cushioning ourselves against that since we started. With J when we were first practicing; Murph and I were like "My God! What are you doing?!" He'd just we sitting there with his f*cking amp, like, facing it at us. And we'd be scrambling through his house trying to grab shit to put in our ears. And he meanwhile had ear plugs on him. And he was really scary; he'd set up his rig and he'd come out and put on this construction gear. What's he going to do now? What's gonna happen? What's this new direction we're going in?? And it's just like "SCHWEEERRRRRRR!!!" We took the whole hardcore line; Husker Du and Discharge and Blitz, a lot of English, like, that really fucking concrete sound.."
M: "..exploit it.."
LB "..you know the stuff that just scrubs your ear, like with a steal brush. And we took that and then, y'know, rewrote it and slowed the songs down."
TL: "There is something about that intensity of noise, though isn't there?"
GC: "I think that's something I always responded to with a lot of perversity. You know there's some perversion. I mean, some of the sounds on those records are ridiculous; they give you visions, make you hallucinate, squirming stuff. You know it's really weird; it's a really particular vision I have. Visuals come with Dinosaur Jr. music."
M: We like The ' Valentine; they're a very loud British band."
LB: "That was the only time that I ever thought about our influence. Because, I knew My Bloody Valentine, I knew the records before they went really loud, y'know. It's like I was sitting in.. we were at a show in Brighton and I heard the 'You Made Me Realise' 12" and I was like, "Oh my God" - we made something happen. I was like, something happened that wasn't there before; you know, I could trace it right back to J. I was like "J - you actually did this, somehow. Or you inspired this." It was pretty amazing. That was the only time I was ever like, wow, this is kind of breath-taking. I loved 'You Made Me Realise'. When that record came out I was just like, "Oh my God". And just all that shoe-gazing sh*t after it, I loved all of it. I was totally into it. So it was really like, you know, in some way we influenced them. That was great. I haven't really considered it since then. I've just been like, y'know, whatever."
M: "And y'know that was all started beforehand like MC5 and ACDC"
LB: "..and y'know we were also really into Black Sabbath and Deep Purple.."
TL: "The classic rock stuff as well.."
LB: "Yeah, but a lot of that stuff is pretty radical, y'know.."
TL: "Oh yeah, at the time it was just totally ground-breaking."
LB: "It was funny, even when we were playing we would talk about Black Sabbath to English people and they'd be like "you gotta be fucking joking?? Black Sabbath??" He (referring to M) had arguments with people about Black Sabbath. They'd be like "Nobody listens to Black Sabbath.. Why would you listen to that moronic music??" Do you not see the connection between what we do and that or how much that influenced us..? It was weird."
M: "I remember one time J and I were in England and we had a chance through the label to get tickets to Iron Maiden and they thought we were joking. For like two days we were like "no, we really want to see Iron Maiden!" and they were like, "yeah, that's a good one." They just didn't buy it, and finally we were like "look, can you get us tickets or not?!" And then we went and saw them and they were amazing. It was great.."
TL: "And that was the show.."
M: "It was awesome!" (Laughs)
TL: "I presume Bruce Dickinson era, obviously..?"
M: "Well it was funny, I think we were definitely in the crowd and kinda stood out - we weren't your typical British metal fans ..!"
TL: "..covered in denim and tattoos, that sort of thing... It seems like a really wonderful thing to have a career for as long as you have, and then also be able to see people picking up along the way, but just keep going really. Of the new stuff, how do you really retain that original ethic, and kind of like, y'know a manifesto of what the band was to ensure it's still the same group?"
LB: "We just, we play in the same style we did when the band started; we did it at such an early age - like when we were seventeen, eighteen. So it's such a basic part. The way that I approach a bass, y'know when I pick up a bass and I see Murph it's all of a sudden like, I just play that way. When I play with other people I don't play like that... it's weird."
M: "And also, like, the new record that's coming out, I mean, J's had a formula - there's a certain consistency. So that kind of preserves exactly what you're talking about; that element is preserved through that formula."
TL: "Quite a stubborn, linear view of what the fortitude of the best parts of the band are..."
LB: "Yeah, he does that. I personally don't have that."
TL: "It's a relevant one to Graham as well, rejoining Blur. D'you find that same thing as well - the relationship you have with the people in the band - it is only one thing you can have with people that you have that history with?"
GC: "You all drop like you're magnetic.. You're into your roles, immediately almost, and hopefully not all the negative ones when you get back again. Because there are some that are all messed up, and it's a kind of flipped out, weird relationship. But hopefully, after a break, some of the bad roles you had - they fall away and you get on with the fun. That's what it's all about. But you do, I'm saying when the old Telecaster comes on, and Damon's like.." (pulls face) "We're all quite primitive, when we make shiny pop records and all that. But we like using instruments and technology, badly in a way. You know, it's quite interesting. We're all; we all grow into weird old people."
(All Laugh)
M: "That's the best statement I've heard in a long time!"
GC: "It's really really true!"
TL: Guys, you're weird and you're older than me, but you're f*cking awesome people. Thank you very much; it was lovely to meet you. Have a great show tonight."
Graham, Lou and Murph were talking to Toby L. Article written up by Christopher Pearson.